Episode Transcript
[00:00:11] Speaker A: I'm Afshin Ratansi and welcome back to Going Underground, broadcasting all around the world from the UAE. Today marks the anniversary of Operation Barbarossa, Hitler's catastrophic 1941 attempt to defeat Russia. Future President Harry Truman said the U.S. should let the Germans and Soviets kill as many as as possible. And Russia's victory was indeed at a great cost given the Nazis were aided by Rockefeller owned Standard Oil of New Jersey. Washington's Vassal Genocide 7 meeting in Evian last week on the heels of its support for genocide in Gaza echoes Barbarossa history. Today they are pledging ever more weapons for the neo Nazi regime in Kiev. It comes as a U S Iran memorandum of understanding emerges from West Asian ashes and Trump's spectacular failure to defeat Iran. Trump went to war because of a corrupt Netanyahu and Israeli lobbyists like Miriam Adelson slaughtering 168 schoolgirls on the opening day in February. A slew of MAGA based figures like Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly, Candace Owens and others have all expressed dismay at the power of the Israeli lobby in destroying the Trump presidency. It's been called the Epstein War after Zionist child trafficking rapist Jeffrey Epstein who was introduced to Israeli intelligence by Robert Maxwell who used to employ Today's guest. Joining me again from Montreal is Ari Ben Menashe who worked in Israel's Military Intelligence Directorate Amman and was a key source for Seymour Hersh's the Samson option on Israel's nuclear arsenal. Harry, thanks so much for coming back. Ongoing underground. I better start, I mean we don't know whether J.D. vance or Trump turned up in Switzerland, whether Netanyahu has started bombing Lebanon again, Gaza, maybe even Iran.
The question to you is of course given the viral segments of our last interview on going underground, whether as you said in the last interview, if their deal is reached, Netanyahu will release Epstein filed damaging material on Trump. And whether you think that's about to happen.
[00:02:13] Speaker B: Well, Donald Trump did the right thing for America under the circumstances.
The circumstances were many mistakes made by US Presidents over Iran and the Middle East. Yes.
So Donald Trump tried to get the United States out of the Middle east and out of its trouble with Iran.
Yes, that's the right thing to do for the US.
I want to go through history here.
The first attempted real deal with the Iranians was actually attempted by President Clinton going back to 2000, the year 2000.
He met President Khatami in Mirabel Airport north of Montreal and they worked out the deal between them.
And as a matter of fact on 3-17-2000, Madeleine Albright made a speech at the American Iranian Council apologizing to the Iranian people for America overthrowing an elected government in 1952 in Iran and bringing Bashar back.
[00:03:53] Speaker A: Mossadegh 53.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: And she made that speech publicly.
But Ehud Barak and company sabotaged that deal by using Epstein and company against Mr.
Clinton. And if you remember, Clinton already came out of impeachment process because, I mean,
[00:04:23] Speaker A: there was some sort of peace process, but suddenly the Monica Lewinsky story destroyed his presidency.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: That's right.
But Clinton understood that he has to make a deal with the Iranians in order to stabilize the Middle East. Then there was Barack Obama. We all know the story, okay?
But the Israelis, on the other hand, tried to sabotage any deal made with the Iranians, trying to outdo the Iranians in the Middle East.
But they wanted their own deal with the Iranians directly, without the United States.
[00:05:16] Speaker A: Israel.
[00:05:18] Speaker B: Israel said, yes, they wanted their own deal with the Iranians. I repeat myself.
[00:05:27] Speaker A: I mean, sorry to interrupt. Ari. I think it's important to show, because I think I know where you're going, the context that Iran has had relations with Israel in the past, notoriously under Ronald Reagan and the Iran Contra scandal, when Israel and Iran were.
[00:05:43] Speaker B: Hold on, together. Hold on.
Israel, as you said, Israel had a relationship with the Iranians for all its existence, including 10 years of the Khomeini regime. Yes. And the Israelis were providing arms to Iran to fight Saddam Hussein, if that was.
If people remember that.
And Prime Minister Begin at the time, bombed Saddam Hussein's nuclear reactor that was given to him by the French.
That's history.
And used Iranian territory for landing aircraft if necessary. So the Israelis are now, right now understanding.
Understanding that in order to stay relevant, they will need a deal with Iran.
This goes.
And their contact actually is somebody that is seen as an extremist.
Mr. Ahmadinejad, who was president of Iran in 2010.
President Ahmadinejad, actually, his meeting, I'll tell you right now, April 22, April 23, was in Zimbabwe, and he met some Israeli representatives. And he actually said that he's interested in a deal with Israel directly without the Americans.
He met Israelis in Zimbabwe on April 2010 between 22 and 23 April.
And he said that. And ever since, Netanyahu was in touch with him in one form or the other through a Hasidic sect in Jerusalem called the Ruturay Karte.
They were the ones that also originally put the Begin government in touch with Ayatollah Khomeini when he was still in Paris, there's a whole history of a relationship between the sect and the Iranian
[00:08:49] Speaker A: government because the Torakata believes in free Palestine and ethical for theological and ethical issues. That Jewish sect believe in a free Palestine and justice for Palestinians.
[00:09:03] Speaker B: That's correct. But the Israelis used them for contact with the Iranian. Direct contact with the Iranian government without using the Arab friends or the Americans or any other mediators that are using them because they have a very close relationship with Ahmadinejad.
And according to my understanding, the first war between Israel and Iran, the Israelis, Mr. Netanyahu wanted to help Mr. Ahmadinejad take over the government in Iran.
[00:09:48] Speaker A: I should just say Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has been on this show. I've interviewed him a number of times. We will ask him about this, but he is not. I mean, he was kind of out of favor with Khamenei before he was murdered by Donald Trump a few months ago.
So I don't know whether this is. I mean, you know about Israeli intelligence. I don't know whether Israeli intelligence are making a mistake with who their interlocutor is. Has they made the mistake about not comprehending the Strait of Hormuz?
[00:10:19] Speaker B: Sorry.
The Israelis did not understand who they were, who they're dealing, who they would be dealing with after they killed that many Iranian leaders and the first war. Or they killed them, or the Americans killed them, whomever killed them, the new group do not have a relationship with Israel.
But Israelis now are starting to understand that they better try to get an independent relationship with the Iranians. They're starting to understand that in order to stay relevant and safe, because Donald Trump wants out of the Middle east, out of dealing with the Iranians, he basically made a deal. He gave them everything they wanted just to get out and opened the Strait of Hormuz.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: What was your reaction to that decision? And actually, perhaps more importantly, why someone like Lindsey Graham of South Carolina could tweet that he was for the deal?
Because the ultimate goal is for Saudi Arabia to join the Abraham Accords.
Saudi Arabia, of course, which called out the genocide as a genocide in Gaza.
[00:11:53] Speaker B: Well, I think the deal is a good deal for Donald Trump and the United States in general.
It's pulling out of the mistakes that Donald Trump and others made. They're pulling them out of the war with Iran.
I think it's a good deal.
[00:12:26] Speaker A: But as I said, as I said at the beginning and that viral clip of our conversation last time, I mean, how in danger is Trump personally? Even if it is a good deal for Trump on one level, how dangerous is it for him personally.
I mean, clearly you feel that there are the Israeli deep state. I'm not sure whether that's the phrase.
There are elements in the Israeli deep state that want to put his life in danger.
[00:12:59] Speaker B: Now, I believe Donald Trump is in danger from the Israelis and other people inside the United States. That's correct.
And the Israeli lobby and some Israeli elements in the United States. Yes, I do believe that. And this is due to the deal he made with the Iranians.
[00:13:28] Speaker A: Hairy bin Minashi, I'll stop you there. More from the former Israeli military intelligence officer after this break.
Welcome back to GOING underground. I'm still here with a former Israeli military intelligence officer and author of Prophet of War Inside the Secret US Israeli Arms Network, Ari Bemanasse. Harry, at the end of part one, we were speaking of the danger that Trump personally faces after talking up this deal. Trump said Netanyahu has a problem getting excited.
I don't think I've heard a US President insulting a Israeli premier like that, especially when he's being bankrolled by them.
What is the nature of this danger? You must have heard that the MAGA base people like Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly, they all feel deeply suspicious about the assassination of Charlie Kirk, seen as perhaps a future GOP president. Who knows what is the power of the lobby to endanger Donald Trump?
And does that mean you kind of salute his courage for overcoming the billions and billions of dollars and pressure that he must have felt as he came to terms with the power of Iran?
[00:15:02] Speaker B: I think his life is in danger. I really do.
You're asking what type of danger is that and saying, I think his life is in danger.
[00:15:17] Speaker A: And do you think he knows that?
[00:15:20] Speaker B: Of course he does.
But for, you know, the president of the United States, believe it or not, this president did the right thing, get the United States out of entanglement with Iran and have a normal relationship with Iran. That's what he is trying to do. I know we paid them a lot of money, probably Qatar paid quite a bit of money just to get to the mou, to the Iranians, because Iranians are they don't care about the nuclear issue. They care about money.
They do. And that's all they wanted out of this deal. And they got it.
And they sort of released Donald Trump from by opening the Strait of Hormuz and so on and so forth, the shipping and maybe the US Economy and the oil prices will go down. And they did go down in the last few days.
[00:16:34] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, obviously Iran has suffered hugely over despite they have the largest mall in the world, but they've suffered hugely. And the money is an important part of the deal. But then you said Trump's life is in danger. But.
[00:16:51] Speaker B: Sorry, I'm going to interrupt you. For the Iranians, the only part of the deal that the support of right now is the money and the sanctions.
[00:17:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:02] Speaker B: And the rest doesn't matter.
Nuclear stuff or so on and so forth. And they don't even care about the Israelis and Gaza.
[00:17:14] Speaker A: Well, I'm sure the Iranian government would deny that, as they would deny how they did introduce Lebanon into the equation. They didn't need to put Lebanon into that. Why do you think they put Lebanon into the equation then? For the deal which are there Israelis
[00:17:30] Speaker B: out of Lebanon even though they put it there?
[00:17:35] Speaker A: I'm not yet. Obviously by the time people are watching this, you may be tragically vindicated even more about it. But does that mean that the lobby, if Trump survives, is dead to some extent.
I mean, if we look at the people, I think last time we didn't speak about some of the DOJ revelations that have since been coming out. I mean, his commerce secretary, Howard Lutnick, hundreds of times mentioned in the Epstein files went to the island.
RFK Jr. We now know flew on the Epstein place twice. The new head of the Federal Reserve, Kevin Walsh, went to an Epstein event in an Epstein linked event in Saint Boit's.
[00:18:18] Speaker B: Trump was brave enough to rise above this.
One of the people that dared him and said, you deserve the Nobel Peace Prize if you do a deal with the Iranians in spite of the Israelis and what the consequences may be.
I'm not defending him, but in this case, he did the right thing for Trump and for the United States to get out of the Iranian entanglement.
But of course, she made the mistake of going into the war in the first place. But that's a different story.
[00:18:58] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, so you think he saw from a, from a real estate agent view point, 2 billion in famine if fertilizer shortages were to continue.
We don't know how many front loaded or backloaded price increases have down the line because of the closure over the past few months. You think that's what he saw is more important than the Israeli lobby, more important than the Epstein files, more important than Miriam Adelson.
[00:19:29] Speaker B: For once, he did the right thing for the United States and for himself.
But you have to remember he also corrected his own mistake of going into the war in the first place.
[00:19:45] Speaker A: But now Iran can wield the Strait of Hormuz whenever he Likes.
[00:19:51] Speaker B: Well, that's something that he had to take into account, but he's taking his chances.
And if the United States becomes real friendly with the Iranians like it was for many years, maybe the Iranians won't close the.
Depending on the relationship that develops between the United States and the Iranians. And maybe also there will be a relationship that will develop between the Iranians and the Israelis, a separate relationship.
Because I believe at this point the Israelis are finding out that talking to the Iranians might be a good idea.
And the Iranians probably think the same.
We have to remember they had a long relationship with each other.
Of course. And they know.
Can I stop you here just one moment and say that the Israelis must have a relationship with a very high level Iranian personality because of the amount of intelligence, accurate intelligence they have about Iran. It's very difficult to collect this information without having that very high level person there talking to them or reporting to them.
[00:21:52] Speaker A: Killing Ali Larajani, killing Atuag Khamenei and so many other senior leadership
[00:22:01] Speaker B: would have been a difficult target without knowledge of where he was.
[00:22:07] Speaker A: Yeah, it certainly surprised me. So does that mean Netanyahu goes to jail before the October elections in Israel, or does the Netanyahu try and start bombing Yemen again and breaking up the Saudi deal with Yemen?
[00:22:23] Speaker B: Now Netanyahu wants to leave the Iranian file aside, wants to leave the Lebanese file aside, and he wants to start a war in Yemen just to keep the war going.
A war going.
He just opened relations with Somaliland.
His government is the first government that recognized Somaliland as an independent country that broke off from Somalia. Yes.
And they're opening the base there. The president of Somaliland just visited Israel and they gave him the highest honors possible.
And Somaliland is just across the straits
[00:23:13] Speaker A: from Yemen, the Bab El Mandev Strait, another crucial waterway.
[00:23:20] Speaker B: That's right.
And he might.
There are rumors that he wants to start a war with the Houthis and direct war with the Houthis.
Well, if.
If he doesn't have any more people to fight in the Middle east, they'll fight. Oh, well, Yemen is sort of in the Middle East. They'll. They'll fight the Houthis.
[00:23:45] Speaker A: We do. We're running out of time.
We don't know how the United States will react to that, because again, the Babel Mandeb is as crucial, arguably as the Strait of Hormuz.
[00:23:54] Speaker B: You have to remember that the United States has troops in Somalia. And then if the Israelis have troops in Somaliland, this is gonna be a confrontation between Israeli and American interests.
A direct confrontation.
[00:24:17] Speaker A: US has liberty again.
[00:24:20] Speaker B: Another view as a liberty. Yes. Correct.
[00:24:26] Speaker A: Just I want to get on to Palestine and what's been happening there. Of course. But what was your reaction when Trump started talking about Jelani, the Al Qaeda leader in Damascus? Supposedly it's his job to get rid of Hezbollah in Lebanon. Can we take it that Lebanese civilians should sleep a bit better after this deal?
[00:24:51] Speaker B: I don't think that the current Syrian government can get rid of Hezbollah.
I don't think so unless they take over all of Lebanon. And I doubt that the Israelis will allow the Syrians to do that.
There'll be competition over who's going to take over Lebanon first.
And there's even talk about creating an Alawite state in the north of Lebanon, meaning the old members of the old regime breaking off an area of Syria into an Alawite or Assyrian or a Shiite enclave in Syria.
[00:25:47] Speaker A: And I should just say for Trump himself, you think he's going to pivot to Ukraine, where he's going to be, what, Wyckoff and Kushner, these Israeli assets are all going to be negotiating on his behalf with Putin's people.
You think he's going to pivot to the war in Europe?
That's what Trump is going to do.
[00:26:09] Speaker B: Well, and in my opinion, he'll be busy with the Iranians for another few days and then he will probably pivot to Russia and Ukraine. Yes.
And then Netanyahu will be busy trying to sabotage the American deal and get his own deal with the Iranians.
[00:26:37] Speaker A: Will he try and sabotage the Ukraine deal?
[00:26:41] Speaker B: I'm talking about Iran.
[00:26:44] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:26:44] Speaker B: The Ukraine deal.
He might try to sabotage it for a reason.
Meaning trying to get Trump out of the way.
[00:26:55] Speaker A: Arabella Menashe, thank you.
[00:26:59] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:27:01] Speaker A: That's it for the show. Our continued condolences to all those of you bereaved or affected by today's NATO nation wars of aggression. We'll be back on Saturday with a brand new show. Until then, keep in touch via all our social media, if it's not censored in your country. And head to our channel goingundergrandtv on rumble.com to watch new and old episodes of Going Underground. See you Saturday.
